This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: The Washington Post is reporting Israel is planning to launch retaliatory strikes against Iran within the next three weeks, ahead of the U.S. election. Iran fired nearly 200 ballistic missiles at Israeli military and security sites on October 1st. At the time, Iran said the strikes were retaliation for the assassination of Hamas political leader Ismail Haniyeh, who was killed in an explosion in Tehran in July on the day of the inauguration of the new Iranian president. According to the new report in The Washington Post, Israel is now considering striking military sites inside Iran, but not Iran’s oil or nuclear facilities.
This comes as the Biden administration is sending an advanced anti-missile defense system and 100 U.S. troops to Israel in advance of Israel’s attack on Iran. In a statement, a Pentagon spokesperson said, quote, “This action underscores the United States’ ironclad commitment to the defense of Israel, and to defend Americans in Israel, from any further ballistic missile attacks by Iran,” unquote. The missile defense system is known as THAAD, Terminal High Altitude Area Defense. Over the past year, the U.S. has sent over 50,000 tons of armaments and military equipment to Israel, but this marks the first significant deployment of U.S. troops to Israel over the past year. A new study by the Cost of War Project at Brown University estimates the U.S. has spent nearly $23 billion on the Israeli military and related operations over the past year.
We’re joined now by Harrison Mann, a former U.S. Army major who worked at the DIA. That’s the Defense Intelligence Agency. Mann, who is Jewish, resigned to protest U.S. support for Israel’s war on Gaza. He’s now a senior fellow at Win Without War, a network of activists and organizations working for a more peaceful, progressive U.S. foreign policy.
Harrison Mann, welcome back to Democracy Now! If you can talk about the significance of what the U.S. is doing right now, sending the THAAD missiles and the 100 U.S. troops?
HARRISON MANN: Yeah. Thanks, Amy.
This deployment, I think, sends a very strong message, unfortunately, to the Netanyahu government, which is that if you continue to escalate with Iran, you will be rewarded with the protection of additional U.S. systems and troops. And it also, unfortunately, sends the message that, you know, we’ve seen the people burning in tents, and we’ve seen you publicly muse about starving everybody in northern Gaza to death, and that’s not a deal breaker.
In terms of the capability that this provides, the radar that this system depends on, the AN/TPY-2, has actually already been located in southern Israel since 2008, operated by U.S. troops. So, that detection capability is already there. We’re now sending a battery that has about six launchers with a total of 48 interceptors. And the reason that I want to mention that number is, really, all that we’ve added materially is the ability to shoot down another 48 ballistic missiles if Iran adds them to a barrage. So, I see this, in many ways, as a symbolic show of support that can be easily neutralized if Iran just fires more missiles next time.
And then, the other issue here is that we are, indisputably, putting more U.S. troops at risk by sending them to Israel. They’re going to be operating out of Israeli military installations. And we’ve seen, both with the October 1 Iranian attack and then more recent Hezbollah attacks, that Israel’s adversaries can penetrate its air defenses and can strike targets within Israeli bases. So, we have to be very clear that these troops are entering a combat zone. They are going to be at risk, especially as escalation continues. And unfortunately, they’ve been sent there, I think, with no consultation with Congress, with no clear legal justification, without the argument that they are needed to go there for urgent self-defense needs.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Harrison Mann, I wanted to follow up specifically on that issue. Is it your sense that to send troops like this into an existing war, in effect, combat, that — what the requirements are in terms of Congress’s approval?
HARRISON MANN: Yeah, to introduce troops into hostilities, per the 1973 War Powers Act, you either need an authorization from Congress, or there needs to be some urgent and imminent self-defense threat. In this case, the supposed self-defense threat is an Iranian missile attack. But the irony here is the Iranian missile attack is only going to happen if we help Israel strike Iran first.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And I also wanted ask you about a report in The New York Times, a front-page article, the lead article in The New York Times today, which talks about the — Israel’s use of Palestinian detainees as human shields in Gaza, forcing the detainees to, according to The New York Times, to go into tunnels, in case they were booby-trapped, ahead of Israeli troops, in essence, using them as potential victims in order to protect Israeli troops.
HARRISON MANN: Yeah. So, this is based off the reporting and investigations from a Israeli group called Breaking the Silence. I had the honor of meeting their CEO, Nadav Weiman, when he was in D.C. a couple months ago. And he told me about this very project and his efforts to document this process. So, I can say it is very real. It’s, unfortunately, a systemic practice by Israeli troops, kidnapping Palestinians, sometimes putting GoPros on them, putting Israeli uniforms on them, so if they go up to an enemy position, they are going to look like Israeli soldiers.
And at this point, this is kind of the least offensive and illegal thing that we have the Israeli Defense Forces doing in this conflict. So, again, going back to the THAAD deployment, I wish we were not reinforcing and encouraging this behavior as the U.S. government.
AMY GOODMAN: What is your sense, Harrison Mann, of why President Biden is doing this? He is not a — it is not as if he embraces Netanyahu, though, certainly, in terms of sending weapons, he has done that to the fullest. He recognizes he is clearly a Trump ally. Clearly, Netanyahu wants Trump to win. Trump is former president of the United States who could face prison if he doesn’t win, and Prime Minister Netanyahu could face prison if he is no longer prime minister. Their fates are intertwined. So, why is Biden embracing him in this way?
HARRISON MANN: Yeah. The administration for the past year has adhered to this bear hug strategy, the idea being that we have to keep giving Israel support and protection, and that’s the only way we can get them to listen to us. I think it’s obvious that that has not worked. The thinking right now is that by offering this system to Israel’s defense, we can at least convince them to avoid striking more sensitive targets in Iran, like nuclear facilities or oil infrastructure. And, you know, that might actually succeed in the short term, but we have to understand, once these troops and this system is deployed in Israel, I don’t know what incentive Netanyahu has to continue keeping his word and not keep escalating.
And if you’re asking why would we keep supporting or why would the president keep supporting Netanyahu, even when he knows that he’d rather have a Republican president, Donald Trump, in office, I think they just can’t imagine another strategy. And it’s really unfortunate to see that this administration — and to a certain extent, the Harris campaign — would rather risk her election than distance themselves from Israel and from the genocide.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And what is your sense of the impact of this recent decision to deploy these batteries to Israel, the impact that’s going to have on Iran or other enemies of Israel in the region?
HARRISON MANN: Yeah. So, in the near term, I don’t think it’s going to have a big impact, because Iran knows where these troops will be deployed, and if it responds to Israel’s next strike, it can probably successfully avoid hitting them or avoid hitting near them. Unfortunately, as the escalation continues and if we move beyond symbolic messaging strikes to an actual war of annihilation, these troops are going to become targets, even if it’s by accident, right? They probably have a survivability plan. That means they displace to another location in a combat situation. So, we’re going to get to a point where even if they want to avoid killing Americans, Iran and Hezbollah may do so by accident.
And then, the other side of this is that Israel now has its own sort of American human shields that it can leverage to try and avoid a certain level of attacks from Iran, knowing that Iran does not want to kill Americans. And it knows it’s got a new mechanism to drag America directly into war with either Hezbollah or Iran, since now it’s much more likely that U.S. troops can be killed on Israeli soil.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to ask you something that’s not exactly in your wheelhouse, but I’m just curious what you think as a former official at the Defense Intelligence Agency about Donald Trump calling for the National Guard or the U.S. military to be deployed on U.S. soil to target what he called “radical left lunatics.” Trump made the call during an interview on Fox News. This is what he said.
DONALD TRUMP: I think the bigger problem are the people from within. We have some very bad people. We have some sick people, radical left lunatics. And I think they’re the — and it should be very easily handled by — if necessary, by National Guard or, if really necessary, by the military, because they can’t let that happen.
AMY GOODMAN: Your response, Harrison Mann?
HARRISON MANN: Yeah, I’ll just say, as somebody who’s had friends and colleagues who were deployed to D.C. in 2020 or been deployed on the border mission, I trust the noncommissioned officers and officers in the Army and the National Guard to not be aggressive against political activity. But I think the danger here is that if you do this deployment, which units might not refuse, you’re then in a situation with really unclear guidance about what you’re supposed to do with protesters or what you’re supposed to do with whatever group the president has told you to target. So, I think, fortunately, our forces know the right thing to do. But when they end up in a situation with very unclear or maybe contradictory guidance between what the president is saying publicly and their own commanders are telling them, you have the risk of unintentional violence or uncontrolled violence.
AMY GOODMAN: And finally, Harrison Mann, we are just going into a segment on one of the largest arrest actions outside the New York Stock Exchange. Over 200 Jewish activists and their allies were arrested, calling for the U.S. to stop arming Israel. As a former U.S. Army major who resigned to protest U.S. support for Israel’s war on Gaza, as a Jewish American, your thoughts? And also, how activists on the outside, in the streets — I often think about Dan Ellsberg when I think of this, you know, who was at the Pentagon and the RAND Corporation and talked about seeing those protesters outside. You were on the inside. What does this mean — you’re out now, but many of your colleagues are still in — when they see these kind of mass actions?
HARRISON MANN: Yeah. First, I appreciate that you mentioned that I’m Jewish, too. And with respect to these protesters and my own advocacy, I think it’s incredibly important for American Jews to talk about this, especially to demonstrate that Israeli Zionism is not the same as Judaism, and the actions of the Israeli state do not represent all Jews and certainly don’t represent American Jews, because, unfortunately, that’s a claim that both Israeli politicians and American politicians like to make, which is that if you care about Jews, you have to support what Israel is doing in Gaza, West Bank and Lebanon right now, and that’s just patently untrue.
And then, I can tell you, both myself and some of the other officials who publicly resigned, we were influenced and affected by protest activity that we saw. In our case, in terms of the timing, the student protests were extremely affecting in feeling like — I’ll just speak for myself — that I could no longer justify staying silent, when we had 19-year-olds going to get beat up and risk their futures for this cause. So, I can’t promise that this is going to fix everything, but the people on the inside of our institutions do, in aggregate, notice this activism.
AMY GOODMAN: Harrison Mann, I want to thank you for being with us, a former U.S. Army major, a Jewish American, who resigned to protest U.S. support for Israel’s war on Gaza. He’s now a senior fellow at Win Without War, a network of activists and organizations working for a more peaceful, progressive U.S. foreign policy.
When we come back, we’ll be joined by one of those activists outside the New York Stock Exchange, believed to be one of the largest mass arrests there in U.S. history. She was arrested. She’s with Jewish Voice for Peace. Stay with us.
