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AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: President Trump is defending his decision to grant “full, complete and unconditional” presidential pardons to over 1,500 of his supporters involved in the violent January 6th insurrection at the U.S. Capitol. Trump also commuted the sentences of 14 members of the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers, including Stewart Rhodes, the founder of the Oath Keepers, who had been convicted of seditious conspiracy. On Wednesday, Rhodes visited Capitol Hill to meet with Republican lawmakers after being released from prison.
Critics of Trump’s sweeping pardons include the Fraternal Order of Police, which had endorsed Trump in each of the last three elections. In a joint statement, the FOP and the International Association of Chiefs of Police said, quote, “When perpetrators of crimes, especially serious crimes, are not held fully accountable, it sends a dangerous message that the consequences for attacking law enforcement are not severe, potentially emboldening others to commit similar acts of violence.”
During an interview with Sean Hannity on Fox News, Trump defended the pardons.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: And you know what they were there for? They were protesting the vote, because they knew the election was rigged, and they were protesting the vote. And that, you should be allowed to protest the vote. You should be allowed to. You know, the day — when the day comes —
SEAN HANNITY: But you shouldn’t be able to invade the Capitol.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: No. Ready? Most of the people were absolutely innocent. OK, but forgetting all about that, these people have served horribly a long time. It would be very, very cumbersome to go and — look, you know how many people we’re talking about? Fifteen hundred people. Almost all of them are — should not have been — this should not have happened. And the other thing is this: Some of those people with the police, true, but they were very minor incidents.
AMY GOODMAN: President Trump did the interview with Hannity in the Oval Office. Five police officers who served at the Capitol on January 6th died in the days and weeks after the attack. A total of 140 police officers were assaulted by Trump supporters that day. On Wednesday, former Washington, D.C., police officer Michael Fanone criticized the pardons for the rioters. Fanone suffered a heart attack and a traumatic brain injury after he was beaten and electrocuted with a Taser while trying to defend the Capitol.
MICHAEL FANONE: I made my way to the frontline. And at one point, I was pulled off the police line by an individual. His name is Albuquerque Head. He’s from Tennessee. He put me in a chokehold and pulled me out into the crowd. And if you watch my body-worn camera footage, you’ll hear him yell out, “I’ve got one!”
Once I was out in the crowd, you know, I was beaten, restrained. At one point, an individual, Kyle Young, lunged at me while I was being restrained, and attempted to remove my firearm from its holster, all while, you know, other individuals were kind of egging him on, telling him to kill me with my gun. Another individual, Daniel Rodriguez, used a Taser device, applied it to my neck numerous times. And finally, Thomas Sibick stripped me of my badge and my radio, all while I was being, again, restrained and beaten. You know, these are the individuals that pled guilty and were sentenced. And Donald Trump saw it fit to pardon them.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: That was former Washington, D.C., police officer Michael Fanone, who suffered a heart attack and a traumatic brain injury after he was beaten and electrocuted with a Taser while trying to defend the Capitol.
We’re joined now by the son of one of the January 6th insurrectionists who was just pardoned. Jackson Reffitt’s father, Guy Reffitt, was the first person to be convicted over January 6th. Guy Reffitt was a member of a far-right militia called the Texas Three Percenters. During his trial, jurors were shown video of Reffitt filming himself saying, “Drag those people out of the Capitol by their ankles. … I just want to see Pelosi’s head hit every f—ing stair on the way out. … And [Leader] Mitch McConnell, too.”
AMY GOODMAN: It was Guy Reffitt’s own son Jackson who tipped the FBI off about his dad after January 6th. Jackson Reffitt now fears for his life after Trump pardoned his father and 1,500 others involved in the insurrection. Jackson has already received numerous death threats. Jackson Reffitt joins us now from an undisclosed location.
Hi, Jackson. Thanks so much for being with us. Can you talk about what your father did at that time, what you reported, and why you’re so afraid right now?
JACKSON REFFITT: Well, at the time, my father was really getting into all this, you know, Three Percenter militia movement following the events of 2020, leading into 2021. And that quickly escalated in 2020, bleeding into January 6th, you know, talking about what he’s going to do. So I informed the FBI, just to alleviate a lot of the paranoia and unknowingness that I had at that time. And I didn’t realize it, but until January 5th, when he left, I did not know he committed to going to something like January 6th. And he was already on the way. And he then stormed up the Capitol steps with body armor, zip cuffs and a handgun on his side arm, and came home clicking his heels in joy and validation over what had happened. And it was a terrifying moment in my life to think that that happened and happened to our family. It’s unreal to even think about now.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: So, Jackson, how do you understand why your father was drawn to these groups?
JACKSON REFFITT: I understand it to be, you know, the fearmongering that the Trump administration really put on these people. You know, I understand capitalism can atomize people and families and make them feel so alone and destroyed. But, you know, post-2016, my family really had a huge crisis when the price of oil collapsed. My father lost his job from overseas. And when we hit back in America, I mean, we were picking up bed frames off the side of the road, you know, and sleeping on the same blowup mattress, you know, downloading movies from Netflix, bringing them home and watching them on the TV because we had no internet.
And leading from the Trump administration from 2016 onwards, you know, my father really gripped onto what Trump was saying, really gathered what he was offering and trying to give to my family. Of course, you know, that only led to him running up the steps of the Capitol with a gun on his waist and years in prison. But, you know, I understand it to be that he was trying to defend my family and do what he thought was right, but, you know, that inevitably led to what it is now.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: And, Jackson, following this pardon, you said that, quote, “I can’t imagine what he’s going to be willing to do now. It could get a whole hell of a lot worse.” Explain what you fear might happen.
JACKSON REFFITT: So, to look at how I’m feeling now, we have to look back post-January 6, 2021, is my dad came home more proud than ever for doing something that a man who never knew he existed told him to do. And now he knows he exists. Donald Trump gave him that presidential pardon to validate and justify his actions. And the validation now, I’m sure, is swimming through the crowds of the people who participated in January 6th. Like, that is dangerous, you know, to justify actions like that. And to completely validate them is going to be deadly, not only for me. My situation is explosive and, some would call, a dramatic, you know, visualization of what’s going on in this country, but there are thousands and thousands of people who are just like me, who do not have the same privilege I do of being able to drop everything, move, buy a handgun. All this stuff is very lucky for me to have the opportunity to secure myself. Other people don’t have that luxury, and I fear so much for them.
AMY GOODMAN: On Tuesday, former Oath Keepers leader Stewart Rhodes spoke to reporters after his 18-year prison sentence was commuted by Trump. He went back to the scene of the crime, to the Capitol.
STEWART RHODES: I feel — I feel — I feel — yes, I feel vindicated and validated. Yes, absolutely. Of course, I haven’t gotten a pardon yet; I got commutation. But I’m applying for one. I’m pretty positive I’ll get one. When they review my case, they’ll understand that I was targeted for who I am, not for anything I did.
AMY GOODMAN: So, Stewart Rhodes’s sentence was commuted. He’s pushing for a full pardon. That means he can get guns. Jackson, if you could explain why you are so afraid of your dad? Do you fear — your father pardoned, he can get weapons. We just showed a picture of him together with Stewart Rhodes. Do you fear he will go after you, that he will kill you? Has he ever threatened that?
JACKSON REFFITT: Well, first off, I want to say that this is the first time I’m hearing that clip with Stewart Rhodes, and that’s flabbergasting to hear. You know, I’ve been saying this stuff about validation and justification. That clip just, you know, dropped my stomach. That was terrifying to actually hear a member say that.
But when it comes to my father, yes, of course, I’m terrified of all this stuff. I have nothing but paranoia and unknowingness about what’s going to happen in the future, other than what I’ve heard and witnessed and seen my father and my mother get further and further radicalized throughout these years. I was ignorant when I was 18, when all this happened, to think that prison would distance himself from these militias. In his final testimony to the judge, he begged and pleaded that he was never going to participate in this far-right militia nonsense, but he’s just been isolated and put into an echo chamber of these people that are going to validate and justify him. So I have no idea what my father is thinking right now. He can say whatever he wants, but his actions are the real thing that matter, and his actions have not shown any sort of growth. It has shown a further and further hole, a rabbit hole. You know, I love my father deeply, but this is not a healthy thing to dive into.
