This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: As the world marks three years since Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, we begin today’s show in Germany, where Friedrich Merz appears set to become the next German chancellor after his conservative Christian Democratic Union, CDU, placed first in Sunday’s anticipated election. Merz has vowed to back Ukraine in its defense against Russia’s war and has signaled a seismic shift in Europe’s relations with the United States in President Trump’s second term and his government’s growing rift with the European Union. Merz spoke to German public broadcaster ARD Sunday.
FRIEDRICH MERZ: [translated] My absolute priority will be to strengthen Europe as quickly as possible so that, step by step, we can really achieve independence from the United States. I never thought I would have to say something like this on a television program, but after Donald Trump’s statements last week at the latest, it is clear the Americans, at least this part of the Americans, this administration, are largely indifferent to the fate of Europe.
AMY GOODMAN: Germany’s election comes as the Trump administration has been in direct talks with Moscow to reach an agreement that would end the war in Ukraine, without including representatives of Ukraine or European nations at the table. Trump’s White House has also vowed to scale back U.S. military support and troop numbers in Europe. Merz has questioned the future of NATO and has suggested Europe may need to devise a new, independent defense structure to replace the military alliance.
Ahead of Sunday’s election in Germany, U.S. Vice President JD Vance and Elon Musk came out in support of the far-right Alternative for Germany, or AfD, party, which revels in Nazi slogans and anti-immigrant racism. AfD placed second, nearly doubling its support since the 2021 German election, the strongest showing for a far-right party since World War II. Musk reportedly congratulated the AfD on the results. Meanwhile, Vance met with AfD’s leader during a trip to Munich earlier this month.
The Socialist Democratic Party led by outgoing German Chancellor Olaf Scholz placed third. Scholz urged no future government coalition should partner with AfD.
CHANCELLOR OLAF SCHOLZ: [translated] No cooperation with the extreme right. The Social Democratic Party stands by this clear course, and we hope and believe that all others will continue to show this attitude in the coming years. … That an extreme-right party like the AfD gets such election results in this country, this should never be something we will come to terms with. I will never reconcile myself to this.
AMY GOODMAN: For more, we go to Berlin, where we’re joined by David Bebnowski, contemporary historian and social scientist at the Amerika-Institut at the Ludwig Maximilians University Munich. He’s the author of a book about the AfD.
Welcome to Democracy Now! First, your response to the Sunday election in Germany?
DAVID BEBNOWSKI: Well, thank you.
Yeah, my response is that we saw, of course, a victory by the CDU, of the CDU. We saw a strong showing by the AfD. We saw a considerably stronger showing of the Left Party, really the surprise of this election. And I think the CDU and the AfD did not achieve completely what they wanted to achieve. Of course, it’s a complete washout almost for the SPD, coming in with the weakest election results in federal elections in Germany. And the Green Party, as another member of the coalition of the traffic light coalition, as we say in Germany, given the colorings of the several parties that formed that coalition, also lost considerably. And yeah, the FDP, the Free Democrats, traditionally one of the parties that was often a part of governments in Germany, yeah, was lost considerably, was kicked out of the Bundestag, of the German parliament. And the Bündnis Sahra Wagenknecht, another party that formed as a breakaway group of the Left Party, did not make it to the Bundestag, which also was surprising to many.
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to turn to the German parliament Green Party member Renate Künast, who responded to the incoming election results.
RENATE KÜNAST: [translated] There is pressure and danger coming from Russia on the EU, so to speak. The way U.S. President Donald Trump is acting now, and Vice President JD Vance and Elon Musk, it’s like they want to turn us into vassals. So the big challenge now is to build an independent Europe that is incapable of acting relatively quickly, that sets its own goals again. That is now the big challenge.
AMY GOODMAN: So, the question is: Who will the conservative party who will — Merz, form a government with, the right or the left?
DAVID BEBNOWSKI: Well, the party will form a coalition, and this is pretty clear, as was the expected result, actually, from this election. Most likely, the government will be a grand coalition, as we say in Germany, between the SPD, so the Social Democratic Party, and the CDU, so Friedrich Merz will most likely be in charge of the government, and who will be elected chancellor most likely. So, we refer to this kind of coalition as a grand coalition because traditionally, of course, the SPD and the CDU were the greatest and the strongest parties in German parliament. And the SPD is not anymore. The SPD came in third last night. The AfD came in second. But there’s no way that, I think, the public would allow for a government between the AfD and the CDU at the time.
AMY GOODMAN: And who would you compare — which party do you think is closest to the Trump administration, to Vance, who didn’t meet with Scholz but did meet with the AfD, quite remarkably? Of course, we know Elon Musk, his Nazi salute and also supporting the AfD. But you have Merz, who is the leader of the Christian Democratic Party, which has vowed to crack down on immigrants and business regulation. Is the Trump-Vance-Musk administration closer to the Christian Democratic Union or the AfD?
DAVID BEBNOWSKI: Well, I think the MAGA movement definitely is closer to the AfD. And this is what we were able to see. I mean, on the show, you already referred to JD Vance meeting up with Alice Weidel and not with Chancellor Olaf Scholz, which is, of course, a break of protocol, really just going against traditional norms and against the just strong ties between the U.S. and Germany historically. So, this is the party —
AMY GOODMAN: And the significance of this, for —
DAVID BEBNOWSKI: — of the MAGA movement, I would say. And —
AMY GOODMAN: David, the significance of this, for people to understand that Vance spoke at the Munich Security Conference, and he met not with the chancellor, but with the far-right — you could either call it neo-Nazi or Nazi-curious party? And this is a hundred years after Hitler came out of prison and he held what was really considered his first huge rally, 3,000 people, at a beer hall right there in Munich.
DAVID BEBNOWSKI: Yeah, of course. I mean, you can see all these symbols, all these things that happened in history, and you can connect the dots, if you like. And yeah, it’s good to remember these things and the significance of these acts. And yeah, “Nazi-curious,” that’s maybe the term we should stick to. I think the AfD is a party that is definitely part of the extreme right in Germany, at least partially, to a considerable degree. There might be other members in the party that do not — that formally might not agree with everything that the extreme right in Germany, the far right, would say, but still they tolerate how the party has evolved over the last years and what it stands for now. So, there’s no doubt about that.
AMY GOODMAN: And, David Bebnowski, as we speak, on this third anniversary of Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, and Western leaders meet with Zelensky in Kyiv — Macron is meeting with President Trump at the White House, and he will be followed by Starmer, the British prime minister, on Thursday at the White House — can you talk about the stance of Germany now when it comes to Russia’s war in Ukraine?
DAVID BEBNOWSKI: Yeah, I think in Germany there is a strong support for Ukraine and supporting the Ukrainian defense against Russia. And this is something that we would see in a coalition by the SPD and the CDU. However, the AfD has a — yeah, definitely a different standpoint on that, and they would agree with Trump and Vance in coming to terms with Russia without having Ukraine or Europe at the table. Actually, Alice Weidel, so the chairwoman of the AfD, came out yesterday and said that Trump was doing the right thing and that Trump was doing what the AfD was calling for all along. And so, from that point of view, you see that there’s really just a very, very decidedly different standpoint towards Russia-Ukraine relations against the war from the AfD than to almost every party from political mainstream in Germany.
AMY GOODMAN: David Bebnowski, we thank you so much for being with us, contemporary historian, social scientist at the Amerika-Institut at the Ludwig Maximilians University Munich, author of a book on the Alternative for Germany, or AfD, party.
When we come back, Hamas releases six Israeli hostages, but Israel delays the release of over 600 prisoners in exchange. We’ll go to the occupied West Bank, where Israel has deployed tanks for the first time in 20 years. Back in 20 seconds.
[break]
AMY GOODMAN: “Calling All Souls,” from the album Live from Death Row, the title of an album by Keith LaMar set to be released on his birthday, May 31st, at an event at Joe’s Pub here in New York. Keith LaMar will join us live from death row at the Ohio State Penitentiary in Youngstown later in the broadcast.
