This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: In a moment, we’re going to talk about the life and legacy of Pope Francis, but we begin today’s show with Maryland Senator Chris Van Hollen, who’s just returned from a trip to El Salvador, where he met last week with Kilmar Abrego Garcia, the Maryland father whom the Trump administration says they forcibly transferred to an El Salvador notorious mega-prison last month by mistake. Van Hollen shared a photo of the two seated together at a table in what appears to be a hotel restaurant. Senator Van Hollen traveled to El Salvador last Wednesday in a push for Abrego Garcia’s release but had initially been barred from having any contact with him. Abrego Garcia’s wife Jennifer celebrated the meeting, saying in a statement, “My children and my prayers have been answered.”
Abrego Garcia lived in Maryland for almost 15 years after fleeing gang violence in El Salvador. He’s a sheet metal worker.
Following Van Hollen’s trip, four Democratic lawmakers, including Congressmembers Maxwell Frost of Florida, Yassamin Ansari of Arizona, have arrived in El Salvador, where they intend to continue pressuring for Abrego Garcia’s release.
For more, we are joined by Senator Chris Van Hollen.
Senator Van Hollen, welcome back to Democracy Now! The huge news of the day is the pope has died. Two of his major issues — once again, just yesterday, Easter Sunday, calling for a ceasefire in Gaza — you went to the border there, deeply concerned about Israel’s assault on Gaza — and his deep concern for migrants. You just came back from El Salvador, where you met with Abrego Garcia. Why don’t we start there? What exactly happened?
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Well, Amy, I’m glad you mentioned the pope. We’re all going to miss him. He was a pope for all of humanity, and Pope Francis was a beautiful soul.
So, when I met with Abrego Garcia, my main purpose was to let him know that his wife and his kids loved him and that they were fighting for his return, and to let him know that his sheet metal workers’ union and millions of people in the United States who believe in the Constitution of the United States were fighting for his return and for due process.
He spoke about the conditions that he had experienced, the trauma of having been abducted off the streets of Maryland, trying to make a phone call from the Baltimore detention center — it was from Baltimore — without being allowed to do that, and, of course, then ending up first in the notorious CECOT prison. So, it was — it was, of course, emotional to hear about the trauma he experienced.
I told him we were going to keep fighting for him. I met with the vice president of El Salvador and said, “You really should not be complicit in this Trump administration illegal scheme.” And so, we will keep fighting for his constitutional rights, because if we deny the constitutional rights for one person, we threaten them for everybody.
AMY GOODMAN: So, can you tell us exactly what Kilmar said as you met at the hotel? And how is it that you got it totally turned around? First, you were met by what? El Salvadoran soldiers? You were told you can’t to meet with him. And then, just before you left, they brought him out?
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Well, first, I met with the vice president, and I asked if I could meet with Abrego Garcia. He said no. I said, “If I come back next week, can I meet with Abrego Garcia?” He said no. I asked if I could call Abrego Garcia. He said no. And so, the next day, I tried to visit CECOT, which is this notorious prison, and was stopped by soldiers three kilometers short of the prison, and they told me they had been ordered not to allow me to proceed.
I had a number of press conferences in El Salvador with a lot of local press, and I called out this sort of horror of this person having been abducted and denied his constitutional rights, and made the point that El Salvador is violating international law, because international law requires that someone like Abrego Garcia be able to make contact with family, with their lawyers, with others. And so, as I was really preparing to leave on Thursday night, we got a call saying that they had relented and that I could sit down with him.
And in my conversation, which lasted probably over 40 minutes, we covered a lot of things, from his abduction to the conditions he was experiencing and many other things. So it’s hard to sort of capture all of that, but the bottom line was he had been traumatized by what happened. He said it was his family, thinking of his family, that gave him the strength to go on. And I think the fact that he had learned for the first time that people in America were fighting for his constitutional rights also gave him additional strength.
AMY GOODMAN: I want you to explain how much money Bukele is getting, this country of El Salvador is getting, for imprisoning hundreds of men. We don’t know what their crime is, if there’s any crime at all. But Bukele said on social media about your meeting, “Now that he’s been confirmed healthy, he gets the honor of staying in El Salvador’s custody.” He also wrote, “Kilmar Abrego Garcia, miraculously risen from the ‘death camps’ & ‘torture’” — obviously mocking — he goes on to say, “now sipping margaritas with Sen. Van Hollen in the tropical paradise of El Salvador!” You have called this margarita-gate. Can you explain what happened and Bukele’s, to say the least, cynical remark?
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Well, sure. This was — it shows how far Bukele and Trump will go to deceive people and try to change the story, because what happened was this. When I first sat down with Kilmar Abrego Garcia, if you look at the original — the first photos, you’ll see a glass of water and a cup of coffee. As we were speaking, the government folks, Bukele’s folks, ordered the waiters to bring these two glasses that were filled with liquid, looked like margaritas, because they had either salt or sugar or something around the rim. We, of course, did not order them. They brought them to the table. If you looked at the one in Kilmar’s glass, the liquid was actually lower than mine to try to create the appearance that he actually drank it. All of this is a deception. As I pointed out, if you were really Sherlock Holmes, you would see that the sugar or salt or whatever it was around the rim, that there was no gap in it, so, obviously, no one had had a sip.
But this goes to the big lie being told by Bukele and Trump and others to try to create the impression that this person, who was in one of the most notorious prisons in El Salvador and now is still very much in detention and in a news blackout, is somehow being treated fairly. So, these are the lengths they will go, Amy, to try to create this deception, this illusion. They actually wanted to have the meeting by the pool of the hotel. We negotiated away from that. But it was pretty clear what their plan for deception was. And, you know, I think they really bungled it, because they did it in such a blatant way that I’m telling you what happened, and we’re calling it out, and what it demonstrates is what a big lie they will tell.
AMY GOODMAN: I know you have to go. Fifteen seconds. How do you see Kilmar coming home? What is your demand? And why is this so important to you, Senator?
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: So, two things. Number one, when you have the Trump administration flagrantly violating court orders, I do think at some point the court is going to have to find the Trump administration lawyers in contempt and sanction them, number one.
Number two, we need to keep pressure on El Salvador. I’m going to be talking later today to some officials in the state of Maryland. You know, El Salvador has seen more American tourists going there. My view is that American tourists should not be visiting El Salvador when they’re participating in this illegal scheme with the Trump administration. State pension funds can look to see whether they want to divest from any companies doing business in El Salvador. So there are ways to put pressure on El Salvador here.
And the reason this is all so very important is because when you deny constitutional rights to one person, you are threatening them for every single one of us. That’s why this case is so important. If the Trump administration gets away with violating his constitutional rights and violating constitutional orders — I mean, court orders, you know, we are already in a constitutional crisis, but it’s getting worse by the day.
AMY GOODMAN: Maryland Senator Chris Van Hollen, thanks so much for being with us. Democratic senator has returned from El Salvador after meeting last week with Kilmar Abrego Garcia, the Maryland father who was sent to the notorious CECOT mega-prison last month by what the Trump Homeland Security Department admitted was an administrative error. The lawyer who admitted this in court from the DOJ has been fired.
When we come back, the pope has died. Yesterday, on Easter Sunday, he once again called for a ceasefire in Gaza, was a fierce pro-immigrant voice. We’ll look at his life and legacy. Stay with us.
