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AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González.
Former Vice President Dick Cheney has died at the age of 84. He was a key architect of the U.S. invasion of Iraq and the so-called U.S. war on terror after 9/11. Cheney was a leading defender of the U.S. torture program and expanding the power of the presidency and vice presidency. Just days after the 9/11 attacks, Cheney appeared on Meet the Press and said the U.S. would have to work on what he called the dark side.
VICE PRESIDENT DICK CHENEY: We also have to work, though, sort of the dark side, if you will. We’ve got to spend time in the shadows in the intelligence world. A lot of what needs to be done here will have to be done quietly, without any discussion, using sources and methods that are available to our intelligence agencies, if we’re going to be successful.
AMY GOODMAN: Vice President Cheney would go on to push for the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003 under the false pretext of preventing Saddam Hussein from developing weapons of mass destruction.
VICE PRESIDENT DICK CHENEY: In the case of Iraq, we have a regime that is busy enhancing its capabilities in the field of chemical and biological agents and is, by all available evidence, speeding up its nuclear weapons program.
AMY GOODMAN: Over the years, Dick Cheney repeatedly defended the U.S. invasion, which led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands and destabilized the Middle East.
VICE PRESIDENT DICK CHENEY: What we did in Iraq was exactly the right thing to do. If I had it to recommend all over again, I would recommend exactly the right — same course of action.
AMY GOODMAN: Cheney was widely accused of pushing for the U.S. invasion of Iraq to benefit his former company, Halliburton, the world’s second-largest oil services company. In 2007, the former Federal Reserve Chair Alan Greenspan said, quote, “I’m saddened that it’s politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: The Iraq War is largely about oil,” unquote.
Dick Cheney also played a key role in developing the U.S. torture program and global secret detention program. In an interview in 2008, ABC’s Jonathan Karl questioned Cheney about the treatment of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who was held in a secret CIA prison where he was waterboarded over a hundred times.
JONATHAN KARL: Did you authorize the tactics that were used against Khalid Sheikh Mohammed?
VICE PRESIDENT DICK CHENEY: I was aware of the program, certainly, and involved in helping get the process cleared. That is, the agency, in effect, came in and wanted to know what they could and couldn’t do, and they talked to me, as well as others, to explain what they wanted to do, and I supported it. There was a period of time there, three or four years ago, when about half of everything we knew about al-Qaeda came from that one source. So it’s been a remarkably successful effort. I think the results speak for themselves.
JONATHAN KARL: In hindsight, do you think any of those tactics that were used against Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and others went too far?
VICE PRESIDENT DICK CHENEY: I don’t.
JONATHAN KARL: And on KSM, one of those tactics, of course, widely reported, was waterboarding. And that seems to be a tactic we no longer use. Even that, you think, was appropriate?
VICE PRESIDENT DICK CHENEY: I do.
AMY GOODMAN: Dick Cheney first came into the spotlight in the ’70s when he served as President Ford’s chief of staff. He went on to serve in Congress, where he famously voted against a resolution calling for the release of Nelson Mandela in South Africa, then served as defense secretary for George H.W. Bush and oversaw the first Gulf War and the U.S. invasion of Panama.
Later in life, Cheney became a vocal critic of Donald Trump, especially as Trump intensified his criticism of his daughter, Liz Cheney, who served as Republican congresswoman. Dick Cheney said, quote, “In our nation’s 248-year history, there’s never been an individual who’s a greater threat to our republic,” unquote. He was talking about President Trump.
We’re joined now by John Nichols, executive editor of The Nation, author of many books, including The Rise and Rise of Richard B. Cheney: Unlocking the Mysteries of the Most Powerful Vice President in American History.
John, we only have a few minutes here, but if you can talk about the significance of the man who was considered the most powerful vice president in U.S. history?
JOHN NICHOLS: Well, there is no question. He was the most powerful vice president in American history. That is not a debatable point. He positioned himself to be George W. Bush’s vice president. Bush was struggling as a relative newcomer to the national stage and not doing all that well, and he was looking for someone with a lot of experience in government to take that number two job. Cheney did this, as a former White House staffer in the Nixon and Ford eras, as a longtime congressman, as a former secretary of defense, as someone who, himself, he had tried to be a presidential candidate but never gotten much traction. So, Cheney wanted to be at the center of power. Bush accepted him and brought him in.
Because of his immense experience, Cheney asserted himself in all sorts of ways, but especially on foreign policy. And in the aftermath of 9/11, there is simply no question that Dick Cheney sought to put the United States in position to make huge moves in the Middle East, military moves, and ultimately to do an invasion and what became, essentially, an occupation of Iraq. That was done on the basis of claims that were unfounded and proved to be incredibly controversial. Even at the time, it faced a great deal of protest.
And I think this is the thing to understand. Dick Cheney, if you see him in the long arc of his career, is someone who really made the modern Republican Party what it is, a party that sought power at this intersection of economic power and political power, and sought to make moves that were often, you know, very beneficial to the people who had that power, but very destructive, very challenging to the trajectory of the world. I understand how at the end of his career, Dick Cheney was hypercritical of Donald Trump, that he saw in Donald Trump a leader who was acting in ways that were and moving in ways that were incredibly destructive and incredibly dangerous. But it is important to understand that before he came to that point, Dick Cheney was seen in much the same way. And it was because, both as a public face of his party and the administration he was in, but also as a behind-the-scenes operator, he was someone who, I think, a great many Americans came to recognize as an individual who wanted to exercise power in ways that were clearly beneficial to his political circle, to his economic allies, but that really did put the United States in some terrible places diplomatically and politically around the world.
And I would — one last thing I would say is that Dick Cheney was also someone who operated very aggressively as vice president and in other positions at the domestic level, and he was a very ardent advocate for massive tax cuts for the rich, etc. And so, it is very hard to delink Dick Cheney, a very fascinating, very complex man, from the evolution of the Republican Party that he ultimately came to criticize.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, John, I wanted to ask you specifically about the war in Iraq. Cheney, while he was a part, along with Don Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz, of the Project for the New American Century, was — sought regime change for Iraq as early as 1998, years before they actually came up with this excuse for invading Iraq.
JOHN NICHOLS: Well, remember that Dick Cheney had been secretary of defense under George H.W. Bush and had been a advocate for action against Iraq back in 1990, 1991. And so, you can really trace, with Cheney, something, you know, a focus on Iraq — some would say an obsession — that was very intense and that often took — put him at odds with people who said, “Look, the real problem is here. The real challenge is elsewhere.”
And one of the things about Dick Cheney was that when he became fixated on something, he didn’t let go. And he was very willing to, you know, keep pressing, even if his policies were exceptionally unpopular. And I think that, ultimately, the invasion of Iraq and what came after proved to be immensely unpopular. The American people recognize that this was something that was developed and organized in the White House, but not based on anywhere near the level of consultation or the level of international engagement or reflection that was needed. And so, Cheney had a reputation as, you know, this major player, particularly on the global stage, and yet, often, if you look back on it, there were moves that he made, steps that he organized, steps that he pushed for, that proved to be disastrous and that proved to be wrong.
And so, again, I think Cheney is an incredibly complex man, and I think he is fascinating. I think he definitely committed himself to a life of public service — there is no question that. And yet, in that public service, even going back to the 1970s, you see an effort or willingness to err on the side of secrecy, on the side of power politics, to not consult Congress, to actually insult Congress, and to concentrate power in the presidency, in the White House, to do the things that he and his allies wanted to do.
And then, yes, as we know, he then became a very stark critic of Donald Trump for using that concentrated power, ultimately to force his own daughter, Cheney’s own daughter, from a position of leadership in the House of Representatives. And I do think that, again, if we look at where the Republican Party is today and how it sees the presidency as almost an unlimited base of power, and a base of power to make not just political moves, but economic moves, I think you have to recognize Cheney as someone who created that and who played an absolutely central role in telling Republicans that if you get power, you should do what you want to do.
AMY GOODMAN: John Nichols, I want to thank you for being with us, executive editor of The Nation, author of many books, including The Rise and Rise of Richard B. Cheney: Unlocking the Mysteries of the Most Powerful Vice President in American History.
Coming up, we speak to the Pulitzer Prize-winning reporters Carol Leonnig and Aaron Davis about their blockbuster new book, out today, Injustice: How Politics and Fear Vanquished America’s Justice Department. Stay with us.
