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AMY GOODMAN: President Trump has repeated his threat to attack Iran over Iranian security forces using violence to crush anti-government protests. Speaking to reporters Sunday night, President Trump claimed Iranian leaders called him to negotiate, but Trump said the U.S. may take military action before a possible meeting.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Iran called to negotiate.
REPORTER: Yesterday?
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Yesterday. The leaders of Iran called. They want to negotiate. I think they’re tired of being beat up by the United States.
REPORTER: Can you share any details about that call?
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Iran wants to negotiate, yes.
REPORTER: Negotiate what?
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We may meet with them. I mean, a meeting is being set up. But we may have to act, because of what’s happening, before the meeting. But a meeting is being set up. Iran called. They want to negotiate.
AMY GOODMAN: According to the U.S.-based Human Rights Activist News Agency, over 500 Iranian protesters and 48 security officials have died in demonstrations that began over two weeks ago over Iran’s economic crisis. The death toll has not been confirmed, in part because Iranian officials have shut off the internet and have limited phone calls inside Iran.
Earlier today, tens of thousands of people took part in a pro-government rally in Tehran. Iran’s Foreign Minister Abbas Araghchi blamed the U.S. and Israel for the anti-government protests, insisting the situation inside Iran is under control. On Sunday, Iran’s parliament speaker warned the U.S. and Israel, any military intervention will be met with retaliation.
MOHAMMAD BAGHER GHALIBAF: [translated] Know that in the case of an attack on Iran, the occupied lands, as well as the U.S. military bases in the region, will be our legitimate targets. And with all those clear confessions that you made about invading Iran, we will not limit ourselves to a reaction. We will act based on signs of threats. It was necessary to say this to you and all your allies in the region to avoid miscalculation; otherwise, it will be too late to regret.
AMY GOODMAN: We’re joined now by two guests. Hamidreza Mohammadi is the youngest brother of the Nobel Peace laureate Narges Mohammadi, who was detained in Iran once again last month. He works closely with the Narges Foundation. He’s joining us from Oslo, Norway. And in Washington, D.C., we’re joined by Narges Bajoghli, associate professor of anthropology and Middle East studies at Johns Hopkins University. She’s the co-author of How Sanctions Work: Iran and the Impact of Economic Warfare, also the author of Iran Reframed: Anxieties of Power in the Islamic Republic.
I want to begin with Hamidreza Mohammadi, the brother of the Nobel Peace laureate who’s in jail. Can you describe what’s happening on the ground?
HAMIDREZA MOHAMMADI: Hi. As you know, there’s a complete blackout, information blackout, in Iran, so we don’t get a lot of news. But via Starlink, some people have been able to post videos of demonstrations and, unfortunately, videos of a lot of bodies piled on one another in the hospitals or in the morgues. So, it is as expected.
The leader, the supreme leader of Iran, made two speeches threatening the demonstrators, and it was a clear sign that it was a blank card for killing people, as many as they could, to frighten people. And it has happened. We don’t know exactly how many people have been killed in the demonstrations, but the videos show that the number is very high. And it is very worrisome that in the lack of internet and telephone communication, the regime has been able to kill a lot of people, to crack down on the demonstration.
AMY GOODMAN: We’re seeing these horrific pictures of body bags outside of hospitals. It’s expected there are hundreds of them. The estimates are 500 possibly, 10,000 people arrested. I’m wondering if, by any chance, you’ve heard anything from your sister, from Narges Mohammadi, who had been reimprisoned. She was let out because of her health, then spoke at the funeral of a man who was — who died in prison, and now she’s been reimprisoned. Where is she, Hamidreza? Do you know?
HAMIDREZA MOHAMMADI: Even before the demonstrations, we didn’t get any information about Narges and her health. My brother tried to visit her, but it was denied. After the demonstrations and a complete cutoff of internet and telephone calls, I haven’t even been able to call my family in Iran, so I don’t think that they are going to tell anything about the people who they arrested that day. I know some of the family members who are desperate to know anything about how they are being held, how are the — how is the health situation. But we have been denied any information. And now during the demonstrations, we don’t even have any means of contacting our family members.
AMY GOODMAN: Professor Narges Bajoghli, you’re speaking to us from Washington, D.C., where President Trump has been making a number of threats, considering a series of potential military options in Iran. Trump was briefed in recent days, apparently, on different plans for intervention. On Saturday, he posted on social media, quote, “Iran is looking at FREEDOM, perhaps like never before. The USA stands ready to help!!!” This came after an overnight post on Friday where Trump warned Iran that the U.S. is “locked and loaded.” Can you talk about what’s happening on the ground and President Trump’s response? Will this help the protesters demanding freedom and democracy in Iran?
NARGES BAJOGHLI: Well, any kind of foreign-led intervention, and especially strikes and war, always gives governments a carte blanche to say that any kind of internal dissent can be or is sort of enemy rhetoric, and then it further represses. And this is why so many civil and political activists in Iran have warned against any kind of foreign intervention, because it actually increases repression inside of the country, just like we’ve been seeing in the past few days. The Iranian government is saying that protesters are rioters and terrorists, and they are trying to say that some have very legitimate demands, and others are causing havoc on purpose.
So, the more that the United States and Israel tie what is happening inside of Iran and tweet things like “Mossad agents are on the ground” and that “we have plans” and are “locked and loaded,” that only puts the lives of ordinary Iranians, who have very legitimate concerns over the economic and political conditions in Iran, on the line. And it just sort of gives more of a carte blanche to the state, which has no qualms about using severe force, as it has in uprisings over the past many years. But to have the U.S. and Israel be so blunt about Mossad being on the streets and the potential of further intervention only makes situation on the ground for those much worse.
AMY GOODMAN: On Saturday morning, Secretary of State Marco Rubio spoke by phone with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. They reportedly discussed the protests in Iran, along with the situation in Syria and Gaza. On Sunday, the Israeli military said it’s monitoring developments in Iran, and the Prime Minister Netanyahu voiced support for the Iranian protesters during a Cabinet address.
PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: [translated] Israel is closely monitoring developments in Iran. The demonstrations for freedom have spread across the country. The people of Israel and the entire world are in awe over the immense courage of Iranian citizens. Israel supports their struggle for freedom and strongly condemns the mass killings of innocent civilians. We all hope that the Persian nation will soon be freed from the yoke of tyranny. And when that day comes, Israel and Iran will once again be loyal partners in building a future of prosperity and peace for both peoples.
AMY GOODMAN: If you could respond, Professor Narges Bajoghli?
NARGES BAJOGHLI: You know, Iranians inside of Iran have been watching the same footage that has come out of Gaza and across the Middle East that Israel has waged, either genocide in Gaza, the continued bombardment of southern Lebanon, West Bank. And so, when Bibi Netanyahu says such things, it comes across to many Iranians as not legitimate and as very much sort of using Israel’s own national interests and its geopolitical analysis and its geopolitical desires and using the Iranian protesters as a way to try to get to further weaken the Iranian regime. So, this is something that only goes to further, really, put the lives of Iranian protesters in danger with these kinds of remarks.
AMY GOODMAN: What makes these protests different from the 2022 protests following Mahsa Amini’s death, the young woman, and the call by people throughout Iran for women, life and freedom?
NARGES BAJOGHLI: That movement had a much clearer vision of what it was trying to accomplish. And that movement was one in which the women’s rights movement in Iran has been very long-lasting, and it’s been the biggest thorn in the side of the Islamic Republic since pretty much from the beginning of its existence. Because of that, there’s a lot of civil society organizations, a lot of political activists on the ground who are involved in that movement, and, therefore, are able to get not only a lot of folks onto the streets, but, more importantly, they were able to, from the very get-go of that movement, get people involved in everyday acts of civil disobedience. And therefore, that movement has led to some of the most fundamental shifts in Iran’s society in many, many decades. I mean, today, the mandatory hijab is de facto not a part of everyday life and life in many parts of the country.
This movement is one in which — or, this recent uprisings is one in which it was caused by a severe currency crash, which is connected to U.S. sanctions, and it’s caused by a severe cost-of-living crisis in Iran, very high inflation. People are very angry at the economic situation, and they are, therefore, also angry at the political situation, because unless Iran takes a different position in its foreign policy, its economic situation and the economic sanctions will not be able to budge. So, this is coming out of a lot of very real anger and grievances on the ground, but it has not necessarily yet coalesced around any kind of movement building on the ground that has — similar to the Woman, Life, Freedom movement.
So, we have to wait and see where this goes. But again, the constant — whether from the Israelis or the Americans, the constant talk about Mossad being present, that they are locked and loaded and ready, that makes this also, in tenor, very different from what we saw in 2022, and, therefore, the response and the reaction and what it means going forward is something very different. And I think that the key here is the movement a few years ago really put civil disobedience and noncompliance to the state at the forefront, and this one has come out much more — sort of both been met by violence and has seemed to have a lot more willingness to burn certain things on the ground and things like that, and that is making the situation extremely heated.
AMY GOODMAN: Let’s turn to Nobel laureate Narges Mohammadi in her own words, speaking in a video released by Amnesty International years ago, in 2021. Again, she’s in prison.
NARGES MOHAMMADI: Hello to my colleagues and friends in Amnesty. Today, I can send this video message to you, and without your protection, it wouldn’t have been possible. I hope one day to be able to tell you that executions have stopped in Iran and that women in my country have got their rights and that we have a better human rights situation in Iran. My goal is to achieve peace and human rights. I am determined to try more than before. I’m sure, with our efforts, perseverance in Iran and with your human rights colleagues’ protections, we will win, all together for peace and human rights.
AMY GOODMAN: So, that was Narges Mohammadi speaking when she was freed after years in prison, freed for health reasons. She has been reimprisoned. Her brother, Hamidreza Mohammadi, with us. Your final words on — one, you said your brother tried to visit her in prison. Have you heard from him since? And what the people on the ground are demanding right now, Hamidreza?
HAMIDREZA MOHAMMADI: As I told you, we have heard nothing from our family members in Iran since they closed all kind of means of communication. But people in Iran simply want a different system, and they don’t want to be enslaved by this regime for its ideological purposes. They want freedom. As it was a slogan in 2022, “Woman, Life, Freedom,” they want equal rights for everyone, including women, and they want freedom.
And I think it is a kind of injustice to say that this time the regime is acting this way because of the threats of the United States or Israel, because it overlooks the agency of the Iranian people on the ground. You must remember that going on the streets in front of the bullets is not something that happens when a foreign country sends a message or encourages people to do. People in Iran really want freedom and the same values that Western democracies stand for. And they are expecting support, because the values that they are fighting for are the same values that are held here in the United States and Western Europe. So, I don’t think that the regime is killing people more just because President Trump is supporting or Prime Minister Netanyahu is supporting them. The foreign affairs are influential maybe, but it is the people on the ground that they are chanting what they want, and we shouldn’t ignore what they are chanting for.
The U.S. sanctions have certainly affected Iranian economy, but the mismanagement of all the resources that we had in Iran, the money that they got from oil, they use all that money to make missiles and to export those missiles to their proxies. So there was enough money to make Iran from the ground up again, but they chose to spend that money on their ideological wars. So, we should also give agency to the regime itself and not say that it is because of the policies of the United States or any other country. They are responsible for ruining Iran. And people in Iran are really tired of it.
AMY GOODMAN: And, Professor Bajoghli, your final comment in this last 30 seconds?
NARGES BAJOGHLI: Iranians have been struggling for their freedom for close to over 40 years now. They definitely want a different system. And they know very well what they are up against, and they are extremely brave in how they go up for the changes that they seek. The Islamic Republic is and has always responded extremely repressively towards uprisings in Iran. But it is a fact that the more that the United States and Israel make these kinds of claims of intervention and having agents on the ground, it only continues to up the ante, and it completely erases a lot of the very legitimate grievances and demands that Iranians on the ground have, and it just escalates this entire thing into a geopolitical war, instead of continuing to listen to what those folks on the ground are demanding.
AMY GOODMAN: John Hopkins University professor Narges Bajoghli teaches anthropology and Middle East studies, co-author of How Sanctions Work: Iran and the Impact of Economic Warfare, speaking to us from Washington, D.C. And Hamidreza Mohammadi, brother of the Nobel Peace laureate Narges Mohammadi, who once again was imprisoned last month. He works closely with the Narges Foundation, speaking to us from Oslo, Norway.
Up next, over a thousand protests against ICE across the country following the killing of Renee Good in Minneapolis. We’ll go there. Stay with us.
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AMY GOODMAN: “Baraye,” “Because Of,” by the Iranian singer Shervin Hajipour. It became the unofficial anthem of the 2022 Iran protests after the death of Mahsa Amini, severely beaten by police for breaking a hijab law. Hajipour was arrested two days after the song was originally published.
