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AMY GOODMAN: We want to turn to another issue. A federal appeals court has reversed a ruling that freed the Palestinian activist, the Columbia University graduate Mahmoud Khalil from a Louisiana ICE jail in June. Advocates fear the move could pave the way for the Trump administration to rearrest and deport him.
Mahmoud Khalil was arrested and jailed in March for taking part in campus protests at Columbia University as a graduate student. He was the first noncitizen student targeted and arrested by the Trump administration for pro-Palestine speech, detained for months, first in New Jersey, then in Louisiana, before a federal district judge in New Jersey granted a habeas petition in his case, saying his constitutional rights had likely been violated. Now in a split two-to-one decision, the 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals has overturned that ruling on jurisdictional grounds, saying Khalil should have first appealed his removal in immigration court.
For more, we’re still joined by Baher Azmy, legal director of the Center for Constitutional Rights, as well as Mahmoud Khalil himself, who’s joining us via Zoom.
Welcome back to Democracy Now!, Mahmoud. Can you talk about your response to the judge’s decision, and what this means for you and your family, your wife and your baby, Deen, who was born while you were imprisoned in Louisiana?
MAHMOUD KHALIL: I mean, this ruling is absolutely disappointing. This administration, the Trump administration, is trying everything in its power to come after me, to put the full weight of the government to actually make an example out of me. And this means that I will be separated from my U.S. wife and son, who both were born in this country. And just, like, it underscores how this administration is weaponizing the legal system, how fragile due process can be when our rights are treated as conditional rather than guaranteed. And I must be clear: Like, it’s absolutely — I have an amazing team. You have Baher with you in the studio. We’re going to explore every avenue until we feel vindicated.
Yet this administration will continue to go to these ideological judges to get rulings in their favor. And basically, as you said, what they want me to do is to wait for an immigration process that’s fully completed — fully controlled by the Trump administration to get justice from this, from this process, which, as we know, this wouldn’t happen, that this “immigration judge,” quote-unquote, will not let us develop our case to bring it on appeal. So, imagine that I have to wait to do that. And 10 months now after my detention, the U.S. government has not brought a shred of evidence that I broke any laws, that I spoke anything in support of terrorist organizations, yet they continue to weaponize the legal system.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, Mahmoud, the secretary of state, Marco Rubio, has claimed that your very presence spreads antisemitism, your very presence in this country. How do you — how do you respond to this Trump administration narrative that they’ve created about you?
MAHMOUD KHALIL: No, I mean, this is an administration that spreads hate. This is an administration that actually embraces the actual antisemites, that supports the neo-Nazi parties across Europe, to come and claim that my presence here is about antisemitism. It’s not. You know, I’m here to support Palestinian rights, the fundamental rights of the Palestinian people for their self-determination and liberation.
And again, we told them we want to see them in court, and that’s what they don’t want to do. They want to take this case into immigration court, which they fully control, so we don’t have to present — or, they don’t have to present any evidence. And as Judge Young yesterday, in another case in Massachusetts, said, that what happened in this case is essentially an unconstitutional conspiracy between Rubio himself and Noem, the secretary of homeland security, to pick up certain people, to twist the laws and to go after people they don’t like. This is a judge, a Reagan appointee judge, who said that, that they are conspiring to do that, to make an example out of me, so they chill the speech of everyone in this country, regardless of their — regardless of their status.
AMY GOODMAN: So, you were the first of the students to be arrested. Then there was Mohsen Mahdawi, who’s now a Columbia graduate student. There was Rümeysa Öztürk, who was a Tufts graduate student — all released. You have filed a $20 million lawsuit against the Trump administration, claiming you were falsely imprisoned, maliciously prosecuted, deliberately smeared. And in a case, Judge William Young called Mr. Trump an authoritarian and said the administration’s actions targeting noncitizen student protesters violated the First Amendment. That decision only applies to members of two academic organizations in the case. If you can respond to that, Baher? And, Mahmoud, if you can respond to this lawsuit that you have filed against the Trump administration? Start with Mahmoud.
MAHMOUD KHALIL: Absolutely. I mean, we’re seeking accountability for all the injustices that happened against me and against other students. And this administration needs to pay for all these lawless actions that they are committing. So, this is just like one action towards that end. And this is why they are retaliating against me, because I’m also standing up against their actions, and they don’t like that. They want people to just submit to their authoritarian practices and to their lawlessness, which I will not. I will not make that happen. I will continue my advocacy until Palestine is free.
AMY GOODMAN: How do you keep Mahmoud Khalil free, Baher?
BAHER AZMY: Well, just to reassure everyone, this decision, taking away jurisdiction from the district court, is not — doesn’t immediately go into effect. So, the order releasing him is still in effect and will be in effect until the appeals process is exhausted. And we have a number of legal options to continue to seek to revise or reverse this split two-to-one decision, which comes over a very persuasive dissent and which is contrary to decisions in other courts of appeals.
But, ultimately, Judge Young is right. This is an authoritarian action by this government. He also talked about how Rubio and others have a fear of freedom. Imagine being so cowardly and ashamed of the First Amendment that rather take on the speech that you disagree with, you try and imprison those who dissent from U.S. foreign policy. That’s the classic kind of extrajudicial detention or arbitrary detention that’s the hallmark of autocratic regimes.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: But, Baher, this whole issue of Judge Young’s decision on the free speech rights of noncitizens, the appeals panel claiming that he lacked subject matter jurisdiction, could you explain the logic of that?
BAHER AZMY: Yeah. So, to be clear, the appeals court in — headquartered in Philadelphia did not take on the illegality of the detention, which basically every court that has reviewed this policy has found unconstitutional. It cited a technical jurisdictional provision of the immigration laws to say that the federal court, which is a constitutional court, cannot hear these claims; it has to be put through the immigration process and the immigration courts. But what people need to understand is the immigration courts are not real courts. They’re part of the executive branch. That’s why we wanted our constitutional claims to be heard in a real court, a real constitutional court. And, you know, that’s where these kind of constitutional claims can be, not in a court that rubber stamps the executive branch’s policies.
AMY GOODMAN: Just going to end this segment with New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani posting on social media, quote, “Last year’s arrest of Mahmoud Khalil was more than just a chilling act of political repression, it was an attack on all of our constitutional rights. Now, as the crackdown on pro-Palestinian free speech continues, Mahmoud is being threatened with rearrest. Mahmoud is free — and must remain free,” the mayor of New York City said. That’s Zohran Mamdani. Your final response, Mahmoud Khalil, as you sit here in New York City now free man?
MAHMOUD KHALIL: You know, I would say, like, this is — all these attempts are just to really distract us from what’s really happening, which is Israel’s genocide in Gaza and Israel’s action against Palestinians in whole of Palestine, and also to distract from the fact that this administration, just two days ago, sent $3.3 billion to Israel, from our money, from our tax money. And this is why I was protesting, and this is why I will continue to protest.
AMY GOODMAN: Palestinian activist and Columbia University graduate, Mahmoud Khalil, and Baher Azmy, legal director of the Center for Constitutional Rights.
Coming up, we speak to the Palestinian American director and actress Cherien Dabis. Stay with us.
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AMY GOODMAN: “Rhythm of Love” by Ahmet Ali Arslan.
