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AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman.
The families of two Trinidadian men killed by a U.S. boat strike in the Caribbean are suing the Trump administration for wrongful death and extrajudicial killing. On October 14th, Chad Joseph, who was 26 years old, and Rishi Samaroo, who was 41, were on a small vessel headed back to Trinidad from Venezuela when their boat was targeted, killing all six people on board. Soon after, President Trump released video of the strike on social media, referring to those killed as narcoterrorists. The families of Joseph and Samaroo say both men had been away from home working on Venezuelan farms and fishing and were simply returning home. At least 125 people have been killed in the unprecedented bombing campaign on civilian boats in the Caribbean and eastern Pacific since September.
This is Chad Joseph’s uncle Pops Salvary, speaking about President Trump.
COLUMBIA ”POPS” SALVARY: He’s supposed to face murder charges, because it’s a criminal offense. You cannot be bombing people’s boats here like that, you know, on international waters, saying narcotrafficking. And where is your proof? You know? Where is your proof?
AMY GOODMAN: While the families say neither man was involved in narcotrafficking, their attorneys have laid out arguments for why these strikes were illegal under all circumstances.
For more, we’re joined by Baher Azmy, legal director for the Center for Constitutional Rights, attorney for the families.
Welcome to Democracy Now! Lay out their case and who these two young men are.
BAHER AZMY: Yeah, these are two —
AMY GOODMAN: Were.
BAHER AZMY: Yes — two Trinidadian citizens. They were sort of itinerant farmers and fishermen who had been long awaiting for a ride home from Venezuela, where they worked, and were assassinated on their boat along with four other people. And it’s just sort of, I think, the latest example of the Trump administration’s total mockery of, contempt for the post-World War II human rights consensus, where nations are constrained by law and not mere might. And under that law, nation-states can’t just sort of willy-nilly declare war on some entity, like some unspecified drug cartel, and then use military force. The conditions for an armed conflict aren’t there, and so, therefore, this is just an outright cold-blooded murder.
AMY GOODMAN: So, let’s talk about the laws.
BAHER AZMY: Yeah.
AMY GOODMAN: Your suit was filed under two federal statutes: the Death on the High Seas Act —
BAHER AZMY: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN: — a law that allows family members to sue for wrongful deaths occurring on the high seas, and the Alien Tort Statute, which allows — well, tell us about foreign citizens to sue in U.S. federal courts for human rights violations. Explain both.
BAHER AZMY: Yeah. So, the Death on the High Seas Act is a species of U.S. admiralty law. It’s a statute that authorizes individuals to sue the United States government for wrongful death. And wrongful death here is synonymous with illegality. And because there was no legal justification, there was no war, these were civilians, it’s illegal under any peacetime or wartime paradigm and then just constitutes simple murder. And then, the Alien Tort Statute allows foreign nationals to sue for egregious human rights violations, which is an extrajudicial killing, an arbitrary deprivation of life. So, we’re pursuing these claims with our partners at the ACLU.
AMY GOODMAN: Earlier this week, Congress held the first public hearing to address U.S. involvement in Venezuela. This is five months after the unprecedented bombing campaign against alleged drug-trafficking boats in the Caribbean began. This is Senator Tim Kaine.
SEN. TIM KAINE: I’d like to talk about the complete weakness of the legal rationale about the strikes on boats in international waters, but I can’t, because the administration has only shared it with members in a classified setting. I can’t tell you why the domestic rationale is hollow and the international rationale is hollow. I can’t tell you why the rationale for attacking Venezuela is hollow, because, again, the rationale has been shared with us in a closed setting. … I can’t talk to you about the weakness of the targeting criteria being used to attack boats in the Caribbean and Pacific. I would encourage any colleague, if you have not, go to the classified setting and ask for a briefing on each strike and ask this question: What was the evidence that there were narcotics on that craft? You will be very surprised if you ask that question about every strike.
AMY GOODMAN: So, if you can respond to what he’s saying, and if you expect to learn new information in discovery in these suits, something that senators and everyone else have not been able to learn?
BAHER AZMY: Yeah, I mean, he’s right. The purported legal justification, the memo that somehow authorizes this, is being kept secret at the same time the administration sort of postures and boasts about the legality of this. And with the ACLU, we filed a separate FOIA lawsuit to try and get that memorandum. But, you know, under any legal theory, there’s no way these killings are justified. In the end, they’re like, ultimately, I think, killings for sport and for spectacle. And no more can the U.S. military assassinate civilians on the high seas than paramilitary forces can shoot civilian protesters in the face or in the back. And we’re seeking accountability, justice for the victims, and a clear ruling that we cannot kill with impunity.
AMY GOODMAN: Baher, before you go, I want to ask you about what’s happening in Minnesota. And you may not know this latest news, just been reported, that the former CNN anchor Don Lemon and independent journalist Georgia Fort have been arrested. Last week, they both reported on a peaceful protest at a St. Paul church where a top ICE official serves as pastor. Lemon’s attorney, the famed free speech lawyer Abbe Lowell, called his arrest a, quote, “unprecedented attack on the First Amendment.” Lowell went on to say, quote, “Instead of investigating the federal agents who killed two peaceful Minnesota protesters, the Trump Justice Department is devoting its time, attention and resources to this arrest, and that is the real indictment of wrongdoing in this case,” Abbe Lowell said. Your final comment?
BAHER AZMY: Yeah, I mean, I think what’s happening in Minneapolis is this sort of terrifying deployment of Trump’s Brownshirts, you know, incentivized 50-grand vigilantes, and this, the punishment of journalists or perceived political opponents and, to connect it to your prior segment, I think, a bit of a dry run, a rehearsal, for a deployment of troops during elections.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, I want to thank you for being with us, Baher Azmy, legal director of the Center for Constitutional Rights, attorney for the two families of two Trinidadian men killed off the coast of Venezuela in a U.S. boat strike on October 14th. The case is Burnley v. the United States.
When we come back, hundreds of thousands of Haitians could lose their TPS status, their right to work in the United States legally. We’re going to speak with a health professional from Haiti who lives in Florida about what this means. Stay with us.
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AMY GOODMAN: “City of Heroes” by Billy Bragg, about Minneapolis. To hear the first part, go to democracynow.org.
